Bookbinding

[Bookbinding] Re: Closed Joint - Proper Execution

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Annied) — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 20:43:40 GMT

Author: Annied
Post subject: Re: Closed Joint - Proper Execution
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:43 pm

The only time I have the board hard up against the joint is when I've sewn the book onto cords and laced the boards in. If the boards aren't laced in, you need a gap between the board and the joint or the book won't open properly. Could that be the reason for the "stiffness"?

Even when the boards are hard against the joint, opening the book causes the leather at the joint to be compressed into a slightly smaller space. I suspect the type of leather might have something to do with whether the wrinkles that creates remain or vanish after the book's shut again. I've just done a quick check of books I've laced onto boards and some have wrinkles, some don't. It seems to be mostly the aniline dyed calfskins that haven't wrinkled. There again, it could just be that I've made a more successful job of some than of others!

[Bookbinding] Re: Closed Joint - Proper Execution

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 19:41:30 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Re: Closed Joint - Proper Execution
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:41 pm

Hi there.

I'm afraid my camera's acting up, so...

What I mean is the opposite of a French joint, the boards being right up against the lip of the backed sections with no space in between.

[Bookbinding] Re: Closed Joint - Proper Execution

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Annied) — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 08:20:13 GMT

Author: Annied
Post subject: Re: Closed Joint - Proper Execution
Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:20 am

I'm probably being very dense here, but I'm not sure what a "closed joint" is! Do you have any pics you could post?

[Bookbinding] Closed Joint - Proper Execution

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:56:12 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Closed Joint - Proper Execution
Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:56 am

Something that has been bugging me lately is that my closed joints are somewhat stiff even after paring. I may not be paring it well enough, or just well. After several opening and closings, small wrinkles show along the outer margins of what had been nice, smooth spine panels. I'm somewhat at a loss as some of the books I reference don't make direct mention of making the joint properly loose so that it doesn't wrinkle the spine. Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Thanks,
S.

(P.S. I haven't yet attempted to affix a leather joint to the endpapers, nor a deblur [sp?].)

[Bookbinding] Re: Paring Leather - Newbie Question

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:44:46 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Re: Paring Leather - Newbie Question
Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:44 am

Thanks for your replies, folks.

Brynn -- I've found that a strop certainly does make a difference. Thanks.

Cheers,
S.

[Bookbinding] Re: Paring Leather - Newbie Question

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Brynn) — Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:38:38 GMT

Author: Brynn
Post subject: Re: Paring Leather - Newbie Question
Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:38 pm

For me the skill in paring , has little to do with the leather , its the sharpness of the knife that is the biggest skill to learn , and dont discount using a strop it does make a difference , good luck

[Bookbinding] Re: Dampening leather...

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (brokenbooks) — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:37:17 GMT

Author: brokenbooks
Post subject: Re: Dampening leather...
Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:37 am

We should clear this up a little. In my practice...I wet out a piece of leather enough so that the leather is dark and remains dark but not be dripping. When I apply localized pressure to the hair side, I should not see any water squeeze out. Next I paste out the leather, let the paste soak for a minute, then paste it out again. The purpose of this procedure is so that the leather will soak up some of the paste and provide a more unified adhesion to the boards. Wetting out the leather has a two-fold result. One, it allows the leather to more readily accept the paste rather than the past just sitting atop the surface of the flesh, and two it prevents uneven discoloration which can always happen when water meets the surface of a skin. The paste will be absorbed into the skin no matter what, without wetting it out first you risk staining from uneven absorption.

Ive not heard that wetting out is done to prevent paste from being absorbed, quite the opposite in fact. In my opinion one should try to encourage it. Although on thinking about your statement Brynn you could look at it in the same way. By wetting out the leather you are effectivily controlling the absorption of the paste, so in a way your correct that wetting out is preventing the paste from being absorbed unevenly.

[Bookbinding] Re: Dampening leather...

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Brynn) — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:56:58 GMT

Author: Brynn
Post subject: Re: Dampening leather...
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:56 pm

brokenbooks wrote:If your using paste there is not so much need for water, as the skin will draw in moisture from the paste.
.

If using paste , then that is the reason to wet the leather , to stop the leather soaking up all the paste away from the boards ect.

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Annied) — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:08:37 GMT

Author: Annied
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:08 pm

That's looking really good.

[Bookbinding] Re: Dampening leather...

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 00:00:31 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Re: Dampening leather...
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:00 pm

Thanks, Broken. I'm using paste, so I'll try what you generally do and work from there.

Cheers,
S.

[Bookbinding] Re: Dampening leather...

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (brokenbooks) — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:51:18 GMT

Author: brokenbooks
Post subject: Re: Dampening leather...
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:51 am

Its hard to give a real reference, its probably one of those things that come with experience. I find that the leather will not hold shape very well if it is too damp. It all depends on the thickness that your working as well. I generally make one or maybe two passes over a skin with wet cotton before flipping it and starting to paste out. If your using paste there is not so much need for water, as the skin will draw in moisture from the paste. If your using PVA, more water is needed.

Again... hard to really give any accurate advice... Maybe someone who can describe the effect better will chime in.

[Wanted] Looking for genuine gold in rolls

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Maxim Ivanov) — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 00:28:49 GMT

Author: Maxim Ivanov
Post subject: Looking for genuine gold in rolls
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:28 pm

Hi dear bookbinders!I have a problem-I am from Russia and there is no good materials for gold tooling. I cant find genuine gold in rolls. I had a lot of from USA fabric but they are closed now.

Maybe you can recommend fabric or shops where I can find it? Thanks!

[Bookbinding] Dampening leather...

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Mon, 23 Aug 2010 19:12:36 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Dampening leather...
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:12 pm

...before covering: this may be one of those questions that is answered by experience, but I'm not sure if I had damped my leather too much before covering on the last attempt. Can anyone offer a guide, reference, or personal experience in how damp the leather should be?

Thanks,
S.

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (bookbum) — Sat, 21 Aug 2010 16:45:34 GMT

Author: bookbum
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:45 pm

looks very nice again.

I'd say the bottle should suit you well in the stead of a backing hammer. Appears that you can wait until you find a hammer at a price you like. I got lucky and found mine years ago in an "antique" shop. It's the English style which is what I learn with originally. They had it labeled as a cobbler's hammer. Sometimes you just get lucky.

[Books] Re: Book Mystery

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:06:41 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Re: Book Mystery
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:06 pm

People of the Book is one that I recently picked up, too -- also about a book restorer, commissioned to restore the Sarajevo Haggadah.

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 15:22:20 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:22 am

Hello, folks.

I thought I'd share a pic of Number Two in progress. I took everyone's advice and applied it as best I could, and read up some more on various things.

Really liking how the caps came out on this one.

Brokenbooks -- you'll be happy to know I backed this sucker with a bottle.

Cheers!
S.

[Bookbinding] Re: Paring Leather - Newbie Question

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (bookbum) — Fri, 20 Aug 2010 13:13:11 GMT

Author: bookbum
Post subject: Re: Paring Leather - Newbie Question
Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:13 am

That's what I found, Ann.

Like I said, I'd never tried it wet so I experimented last night.
I will definitely stay with paring my leather dry.

[Wanted] Re: Looking for classes or workshops

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Miss Lauren) — Thu, 19 Aug 2010 18:03:51 GMT

Author: Miss Lauren
Post subject: Re: Looking for classes or workshops
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:03 pm

Hello,
Thank you for your advice, and I apologize for taking so long to post this. I didn't have the stacks of paper you mentioned, but I did have a little (5 1/2" x 4") paper-back book that the cover had all but been torn off of. So,I decided to tackle that. The main "problem" I had was that the paper tube for the spine turned out too wide. I'm not sure what I did wrong, since I thought( ) I followed the directions I had read in several places. I also learned the importance of a good razor blade. When I went to cut the binder's board for the cover, the blade wasn't held in the knife well enough, so it wiggled and cut my board all crooked... I have yet to attach the cover, but it will be made of black book cloth.
When it is attached, I will post again.
Thanks,
Miss Lauren

[Bookbinding] Re: Paring Leather - Newbie Question

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Annied) — Thu, 19 Aug 2010 13:44:12 GMT

Author: Annied
Post subject: Re: Paring Leather - Newbie Question
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:44 am

bookbum wrote:No it doesn't need to be damp or have any special treatment, but I'll admit, I've never tried paring damp leather.

I've only done it when I've been "fine tuning" the corners on a full leather binding. The leather tends to stretch a lot more when it's damp, so I think it would probably just add to the difficulty.

[Bookbinding] Re: Paring Leather - Newbie Question

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (bookbum) — Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:38:26 GMT

Author: bookbum
Post subject: Re: Paring Leather - Newbie Question
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:38 am

No it doesn't need to be damp or have any special treatment, but I'll admit, I've never tried paring damp leather.

[Bookbinding] Paring Leather - Newbie Question

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:45:07 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Paring Leather - Newbie Question
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:45 pm

Hello folks.

I'm new to paring leather, and have a question before I begin -- something I find very difficult to find out. Does the leather need to be damp or otherwise treated in some way before paring? In the few examples I've seen, it's not specified, and I honestly can't tell.

Thanks,
S.

[Bookbinding] Re: How to fix water stains on paper?

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (krugerma) — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:53:54 GMT

Author: krugerma
Post subject: Re: How to fix water stains on paper?
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:53 am

Thanks for the ideas.

Not sure if it's coated paper, the paper is a bit glossy, so it might be. The humidity method however, sounds quite a bit less intrusive, so I'll give that one a try as my main concern is not so much the staining (even though that was the posting subject), but the warped pages.

Michael

[Bookbinding] Re: How to fix water stains on paper?

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (bookbum) — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:41:56 GMT

Author: bookbum
Post subject: Re: How to fix water stains on paper?
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:41 am

Michael,

There's an easier route to take if you don't care about the present stains.

Get a plastic tub with a lid (Tupperware type thing) big enough to hold the book plus a couple inches of stuff under it. Put about 1/2 to 1 inch of water in the bottom of the tub, suspend the book above the water (I use inverted plastic cups), put on the lid and let the humidity in the tub work overnight. After 24 hours, pull the book and put the whole thing in the press for 72 or more hours.

This process doesn't "wet" the book, just adds moisture though the humidity. You'll be surprised by the outcome.

[Wanted] Re: Looking for classes

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (AdamTorski) — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:31:25 GMT

Author: AdamTorski
Post subject: Re: Looking for classes
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:31 am

do you know of any classes in NY ??

[Bookbinding] Re: How to fix water stains on paper?

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (admin) — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:23:44 GMT

Author: admin
Post subject: Re: How to fix water stains on paper?
Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:23 am

If it's just a water stain, and you feel like rebinding the book, dis-bind it and immerse the pages in water, that will disperse the stain. Let dry flat without weight, restore the signatures and press overnight or if you have a dry mounting press, use it. This is true for non-coated paper, coated paper can't take that treatment.
Rebind to suit your taste....

[Bookbinding] How to fix water stains on paper?

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (krugerma) — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:15:37 GMT

Author: krugerma
Post subject: How to fix water stains on paper?
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:15 am

I recently obtained a copy of The Thames and Hudson Manual of Bookbinding and found the first 40 pages are water stained and show a tide mark. Additionally, the pages are quite warped up until about the 70th page. While I am not terribly concerned about the staining, I would like to flatten the pages without making the water staining any worse. Any suggestions?

Michael

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Annied) — Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:27:29 GMT

Author: Annied
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:27 am

Shea_M wrote:
As an aside, I came across your site late last week and thoroughly enjoyed pictures of your work. Good show

Cheers,
S.

Thank you! I'm always surprised at the number of hits the bookbinding pages get, especially since I've never made any attempt to optimise them for search engines. At the time I put them together, it was because I hadn't been able to find anything that showed a layman just how much goes into a rebind, although there seems to be a lot more choice now.

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Brynn) — Sat, 14 Aug 2010 18:59:38 GMT

Author: Brynn
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:59 pm

Im only a long term beginner , so my opinion doesnt count for much , but if that was my first bind or 2nd or 6th id be very happy

[Bookbinding] Cleaning Leather ?

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Brynn) — Sat, 14 Aug 2010 12:13:09 GMT

Author: Brynn
Post subject: Cleaning Leather ?
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:13 am

Hi all , ive always struggled to clean leather , just clean not feed/nourish ect , ive recently bought an old piece of goat/calf hide which is very dirty and im at a loss how to clean it , saddle soap doesnt seem to be the way to go from what ive found on the web ? theres ph neautral cleaners for leather in the upholstery/car leather range , i suppose this would not be right either ? any help would be great , many thanks

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Fri, 13 Aug 2010 21:44:22 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:44 pm

Thanks for that historical piece of info. It's that information that got me to gravitate toward learning bookbinding in the first place. I have a copy of Thesaurus Precum et Exercitiorum Spiritualium by Thomas Saillio, and I notice that the space at the head and tail are equal, and now that I know some about binding, I positive that this particular book was tied up.

My interest in binding is consuming, to say the least. I'm a supervisor in the composition division at a local printing company that is trying to go all digital (Allen Press, Inc.) I spend the vast majority of my time operating as a workflow engineer / process developer on top of normal supervisory duties. The more I see our operations advance with technology, the more my heart secretly breaks.

To be sure, I love this stuff. And it will only continue to grow, I think.

[Bookbinding] Re: Help with deconstructing a book

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (wetmarble) — Fri, 13 Aug 2010 20:51:05 GMT

Author: wetmarble
Post subject: Re: Help with deconstructing a book
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:51 pm

Thank you for the advice, I'll try it out and let you know how I fared. Sadly, I won't be able to undertake the project for at least a week, due to some traveling.

[Bookbinding] Re: How to protect fingers from heat of hot-stamping machine

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Sam13) — Fri, 13 Aug 2010 20:03:37 GMT

Author: Sam13
Post subject: Re: How to protect fingers from heat of hot-stamping machine
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:03 pm

Wow! You must have an old one. My model 86 was made in 1952 and it has the grooved handles on the sides (I sent KwikPrint the serial number and they told me when it was made.) I do understand the problem though as I have the same trouble with the furniture screw on top. I keep a pair of channel lock pliers handy just so that I can keep from burning my fingers...
Thank you...

[Bookbinding] Re: How to protect fingers from heat of hot-stamping machine

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (brokenbooks) — Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:40:00 GMT

Author: brokenbooks
Post subject: Re: How to protect fingers from heat of hot-stamping machine
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:40 am

I have taken off-cuts of thicker calf and sewn little thimble-like covers for my finger tips. They stay on fairly well...

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (brokenbooks) — Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:37:22 GMT

Author: brokenbooks
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:37 am

To clarify a little more on the off-set issue, and only because reading some of the follow-ups even I got a little confused. It is true that the space under the bottom-most band need be longer, but you must accommodate this by off-setting all the bands. Otherwise you'll end up with the space above the bottom-most band being way off and looking funny. If you imagine all the bands as a single element of the spine aesthetic, just push the whole thing up a little. This is also the same strategy employed by framers, who often set the spacing of matte larger at the bottom than the rest of the four sides.

Also... Just cause I cannot resist. Historically speaking, tying up your cords and centering them on the spine as you have done is an accurate combination. Many books from before the 15th and into the 17th century were bound in this way, and had unusually pronounced cords. Refinements such as off-setting, band nippers and so forth only became usual practice up entering the mid to late 17th/18th centuries. Strictly speaking, tying-up would only be employed correctly if one were attempting a binding structure from these periods. That is not to say tying-up is incorrect only that some puritans would say that tying-up would be a inappropriate approach to certain styles... But there are always variations, and no way is really and truly correct when regarding general practice of bookbinding. I often employ various techniques in my personal binding practice, but conservation/restoration work requires one to be more mindful of the appropriate use of these techniques on certain structures.

I hope your interest grows, as many of us can attest it is a very rewarding thing and can often lead to spirited discussions particularly on the "appropriateness" of technique... I love it. I hope you do to.

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 21:55:06 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:55 pm

Thanks, Ann. I'll be looking into different knives over the weekend. There's much to be done, but practicing paring is a priority for me at this point.

About the space underneath the last band -- that's what I gathered after reading up on it more. I'm glad to see it affirmed in your post.

As an aside, I came across your site late last week and thoroughly enjoyed pictures of your work. Good show

Cheers,
S.

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Annied) — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:51:20 GMT

Author: Annied
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:51 pm

That looks like an excellent first attempt Shea.

If you can lay your hands on some goatskin, you'll almost certainly find you achieve a better effect, not least because it's so much thinner.

Paring the turn ins is important if you want to achieve really neat corners and headcaps. For years I just used a very sharp cobbler's knife and still swear by it (and sometimes at it!) for edge paring.

To answer one of your questions, it's only the space underneath the last raised band that needs to be a little longer than the other spaces.

Loved bookbum's comment about the 1,000 mistakes. I often feel that it's not my bookbinding that improves, just my ability to salvage my mistakes!

[Books] Re: Thames and Hudson manual on bookbinding

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Annied) — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:28:53 GMT

Author: Annied
Post subject: Re: Thames and Hudson manual on bookbinding
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:28 pm

The Thames and Hudson manual is the one I always turn to when I try something new. I loved the bit when I was trying out leather hinges and doublures for the first time and read that if I ended up with creases in the hinge it was due entirely to my own ineptitude!

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:55:05 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:55 pm

Bookbum & brokenbooks,

Thank you for your compliments! -- and for all of the feedback and information. I've already made several notes for my next attempt.

I have a few questions if you don't mind:

bookbum wrote:You probably weren't trying to get the spine so glossy either. That comes from overworking the leather with a bone folder or other tool directly in contact with the leather. Next time cover the spine with a piece of release paper or waxed paper and work through the paper.

Ah-ha! And exactly right. I have loads of waxed paper, so I'll try that next time. You know, that's one of those things that is so simple it didn't enter my mind. I'm sure other beginners tend to over-complicate things, too.

bookbum wrote:I also see you did the top and bottom bands the same distance from the caps leaving the same amount of clear leather at each end. When it sits upright on a bookshelf you may notice that they don't look equal. The lower clear leather area will look smaller than the top. It's am optical illusion and binders usually take it into consideration and make the bottom clear space about 5mm (1/4 inch) larger.

I've read about this effect recently. What's unclear to me, though, as I continue to look for information, is whether only the bottom-most band needs to be up higher, or if all bands need to be offset and not just the one. Could you clarify?

brokenbooks wrote:My first few books were backed with the broad side of a bottle. You do what you can with what you have.
http://www.amazon.com/Bookbinding-Conse ... 1884718116 - This book has a great description of backing and using a hammer.

This has reminded me to be resourceful and creative -- thanks. I'll give that book a read, too, and try out some alternatives to nippers. I'm pretty satisfied with tying-up for now, but also agree that my bands are a little too pronounced, so I'll probably work on correcting that first.

Thanks again -- you've both just helped me a great deal.

Cheers!
~S.

[Bookbinding] Re: Help with deconstructing a book

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (brokenbooks) — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:28:45 GMT

Author: brokenbooks
Post subject: Re: Help with deconstructing a book
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:28 am

Agreed.

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (brokenbooks) — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:21:19 GMT

Author: brokenbooks
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:21 am

Shea,

Well Done! Before going on to formal training I taught myself the same way. Its harder to get your foot in the door without showing some initiative. Certainly I'll agree with Bookbum on a few issues... But overall I think your job was well executed, and extra points for sharing it perfect or not. A funny thing I notice among colleagues is that we all started with massive "drawers of shame," where all our first attempts quickly went after realizing we could not recover from some silly mistake here or there. In fact, my first bookbinding instructor always said "The measure of a bookbinders skill is in their ability to fix their own mistakes." Something Ive always held onto...

Dont worry too much about the backing hammer thing. My first few books were backed with the broad side of a bottle. You do what you can with what you have.
http://www.amazon.com/Bookbinding-Conse ... 1884718116 - This book has a great description of backing and using a hammer. I did what was described here my first go around, but like I said, I used a bottle. All that said, many binders dont even use hammers... Their are a number of ways to achieve the goal without the risk of using a hammer unskillfully.

Also... band-nippers can be expensive, and tying up can sometimes leave undesired marks on the leather. Six in one, half a dozen in the other. Before I had the money, I bought a higher quality pair of potato chip bag clips from Williams Sonoma, $12 or $13 dollars I think. Softened the edges a bit, and used those. The same effect as a pair of $80 nippers can be achieved. In this case though, with thick leather, you almost have to tie-up.

Also, sometimes you can call bookbinding leather providers and ask for seconds and thirds. These can be cheap ways to get your hands on good leather that is perfect for practice. These can be had in both goat and calf.

Keep at it.

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (bookbum) — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 06:45:36 GMT

Author: bookbum
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:45 am

Shea,

Well done! It's very nice for a first attempt at a full leather binding. Cow hide is not a bad material to use; it's just a little harder to work with than goat or calf - knives have to be kept much sharper. Get a good paring knife, learn how to keep it razor sharp and you'll find that you can work with cow hide quite effectively. I prefer calf and goat but I have a few clients who prefer the thick soft feel of the thick cow hide so I use it full thickness for some books.

You're right, the issue with your spine discoloration is from rewetting the leather. Leather doesn't mind being wet (and it should be wetted for binding) but the entire piece needs to be wetted and not just one area. Damp leather allows you to stretch it and to tool it (both blind and gilt). You probably weren't trying to get the spine so glossy either. That comes from overworking the leather with a bone folder or other tool directly in contact with the leather. Next time cover the spine with a piece of release paper or waxed paper and work through the paper.

You tied up the bands well - I never bought nippers (doing this since 1987) and tie every book. I think your bands do look a little too thick for this book - just a little too pronounced. I also see you did the top and bottom bands the same distance from the caps leaving the same amount of clear leather at each end. When it sits upright on a bookshelf you may notice that they don't look equal. The lower clear leather area will look smaller than the top. It's am optical illusion and binders usually take it into consideration and make the bottom clear space about 5mm (1/4 inch) larger. Learning the paring wil also help you get those fore corners to fold down nicely too.

You're well on your way. The old addage is that after you've fixed your first thousand bookbinding mistakes, it all gets easier. Practice, practice, practice. Keep up the excellent work.

[Bookbinding] Re: A tutorial from an amateur bookbinder

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (krugerma) — Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:25:22 GMT

Author: krugerma
Post subject: Re: A tutorial from an amateur bookbinder
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:25 pm

Wow,

It looks like you put quite a bit of work into your very comprehensive tutorial (as well as your book). Nice Job.

Just so you know someone is reading it, I printed it out and and plan on whip stitch the pages into a book project of my own. That should be a good project to get my feet wet in bookbinding, especially since it now gives me reason to fabricate that paper drilling jig/clamp I have been wanting for single sheet binding jobs.

Michael

[For sale] Rare and old-time bookbinding machines

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Viden) — Wed, 11 Aug 2010 06:54:50 GMT

Author: Viden
Post subject: Rare and old-time bookbinding machines
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:54 am

Dear all,

My name is Violin Tomov. I am from Sofia, Bulgaria. My grandfather (1899 - 1976) was a bookbinder. I still keep 3 very old machines from his workshop.

The machines are:

1. Hot-stamping machine, produced by "Josef Anger & Soehne", Vienna, Hernals. Josef Anger (1823-1882) was a famous inventor, born in Czech Republic, later moved to Vienna, Austria, after that - to USA - where he works for the famous Singer & Co, and finally - he returns to Vienna where his sons joned the company and from that moment the company name becomes "Josef Anger & Soehne".
2. Punch-press, produced in Germany, operated by Siemens electric motor (produced by Siemens-Schukertwerke - the very first name of Siemens).
3. 1300 mm bookbinding german paper-knife.

I have tried to upload the photos here, but they are too havy-sized for this form.

In case of interest, please contact me at violin61@yahoo.com.

With kind regards,

Violin Tomov

[Bookbinding] Re: Help with deconstructing a book

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (admin) — Wed, 11 Aug 2010 06:34:46 GMT

Author: admin
Post subject: Re: Help with deconstructing a book
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:34 am

I have seen this problem before, no need to take the signatures apart, that will do more damage than good, the way I handled the removing of the glue was simple, in the case of animal glue residue as seems to be the case for your book, soften the glue with thick wheat paste, that should be enough to scrape most of the adhesive. Don't put paste on the part that was chewed. Once the spine has dried, glue the damage part with pva and let dry. Once dry, apply a strip of strong Japanese paper to the entire spine using wheat paste. My experience is that pva does not adhere well to animal glue hence the need for the Japanese paper transition.
Once dry, the text can be handled like any other, add end papers and fashion the cover as usual.

[Bookbinding] Help with deconstructing a book

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (wetmarble) — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:33:38 GMT

Author: wetmarble
Post subject: Help with deconstructing a book
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:33 pm

[img]Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and to bookbinding. I'm working on a project to rebind a book that our dog took a few chomps out of. The cover was not salvageable so I removed it and cut the end paper. The spine has mull and paste on it and I'm trying to figure out what the best way is to remove the remaining paste. Also a section near the head of the spine was damaged by our dog when the aforementioned chomping occurred. If anyone has any advice on how to remove the paste and separate the signatures, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Here are some photos:
Full View

Damaged area

Remainder of the Spine

I can take more detailed pictures if necessary.

Thanks,
Adam

[Bookbinding] Re: How to protect fingers from heat of hot-stamping machine

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:40:08 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Re: How to protect fingers from heat of hot-stamping machine
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:40 pm

Hey jenks,

It occurred to me that a pair of lawn gloves -- snugly fit and lined on the palm side with rubber -- might do the trick. I picked up these ones from Home Depot during my last trip... I don't remember the brand, but they ran me about $5 or $6, and the fit is tight enough that I can turn small nuts and bolts. Pretty good protection from heat, too. Might be more trouble for you to have to put them on and take them off a lot, but just a thought. I get good precision with my fingertips while wearing them.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:28:45 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:28 pm

Hi, jenks.

I'm glad to know about the similar difficulties you've had with cowhide. When it came to covering, I wasn't sure if what I encountered had more to do with the leather, or how I was working it. (Though I'm sure it's a combination of both.)

So far in the way of textual instruction, I've found these to be most helpful: http://www.aboutbookbinding.com/Main.html
(along with everything else at aboutbookbinding.com), and http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/26672

These videos also gave me insight in the very beginning: http://www.abacusfirenze.it/Videofilmati-legatoria.htm
Now that I've gotten some exposure to the process, some of the things I see in those videos seem a bit crude, but the point is well received.

I still want to find a good demonstration of how to use a backing hammer. Information on that seems to be scarce in the absence of personal instruction.

Other than those specific sources, whatever I could find via Google searches I tried to absorb. Usually what I would do was look up specific terms, like "bookbinding backing," or "bookbinding headbands," or I would look up "bookbinding" via Google Image and click on what looked most interesting. I looked for consistencies across all the pages I found, and reading and looking at photos of restoration jobs helped me to understand book anatomy and considerations to take into account. I'm afraid I didn't bookmark any other specific resources... but if I come across one again I'll be sure to post it for you.

Thanks for your compliment, too!

Cheers,
S.

[Bookbinding] Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (jenks) — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:33:59 GMT

Author: jenks
Post subject: Re: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:33 pm

Hi Shea,

I'm afraid I can't offer much advice since I'm fairly new to bookbinding myself. However, I do think that looks pretty good for a first attempt! I've worked with cowhide too and had similar problems. Paring the edges down can help but you'll find a world of difference between using that and goatskin.
I was wondering what books or other resources you used to teach yourself? (no real reason for asking other than curiosity)
Welcome and best of luck!

[Bookbinding] Re: How to protect fingers from heat of hot-stamping machine

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (jenks) — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:27:36 GMT

Author: jenks
Post subject: Re: How to protect fingers from heat of hot-stamping machine
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:27 pm

Thanks Bookbum - I'll get some of those channel lock pliers. I also might give KwikPrint a call. I don't know the age of the stamper I'm using but I'm intrigued now (didn't realise it was that old!) I wonder if I could switch the round handles to the newer grooved ones.
Thank you - hoping my fingers are less burnt from now on!

[Bookbinding] Feedback on First Book -- and Hello

info@bookbindingforum.com/forum (Shea_M) — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 18:56:40 GMT

Author: Shea_M
Post subject: Feedback on First Book -- and Hello
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:56 pm

Hello, everyone. I'm new to the forum, and expect to be here for a while. I'm new to bookbinding, though I've had an interest in it for many years. Only recently did I decide to make a serious effort to learn and build my skills.

I recently finished my first book and am hoping for some feedback, no matter how critical -- every bit helps as I'm very serious about bookbinding. Below is a picture of Number One. The pages are blank, to be used as a journal. I've found that no matter how long and hard I search, I can't find "just the right" book to use as a journal. So I figured I'd start making my own.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The above represents about a week's worth of work. I didn't tally up the number of hours, but I'd estimate about 8-10. I used cowhide mainly because it was economical, but I don't (yet) have any paring knives, so there's obvious areas of improvement. Overall I'm dissatisfied with the leather -- it's very thick and doesn't highlight edges well, and I find it a bit difficult to work with. Still, it's good for practice, and I have my eyes on some goatskin. I think the cowhide would be suitable for a larger book and also for practicing other things.

Overall, I'm happy with what I was able to do after only a month of studying bookbinding, especially learning how to sew headbands. I used leftover twine (from the cords) for this one, but I quickly realized that I was apprehensive in trimming them down too much -- I was afraid that the silk would come off and I'd have to fight to get it back on. Lesson learned, sort of -- I'll apply a dab of paste to the ends of a practice headband and see how far down I can trim the end. If anyone has any suggestions in this area, I'd be grateful to receive them.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I ended up with some discoloration on the spine here... probably because I had wet it some while working the sections between the bands. Does anyone recognize this effect?

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Alas, no band nippers, but they're on my wish list. So I tied this one up in the press.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Not a bad job for a first-timer, but I think I can do much better with patience, information and experience.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

A few notes on questions I anticipate:
I've received no formal training whatsoever -- everything pictured above is the result of self-teaching, and some things learned by videos across the net... few though they may be.

Everything I did to bind the book pictured was done from memory. I absorbed knowledge for a month until it became almost second nature -- no notes or manuals were consulted in binding this book, but now I have notes of my own, especially "do's" and "don't" for book number two.

Looking forward to learning more, binding more.

Cheers,
S.